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"Clarification" For Foreign Retirees Regarding Taxation And "Paradise"?
Transcript of the above video:
As the title of this video suggests, we are discussing clarification regarding taxation in "paradise". Let me just jump in here. Let me preface this whole thing by saying look I am in kind of an interesting demographical if you will, position vis à vis retirees and vis à vis the younger guys that I now see coming in to Thailand, looking to do business here, looking to live here, maybe find their way here but they are kind of poking around just trying to see if Thailand is for them. I am noticing some are finding it to be a true "paradise" as we will get into here in a minute. Other people, especially in the younger generation, are saying "well I prefer this other country or whatever". At the end of the day, on the young side of the spectrum, you've got time and on top of it, do what you feel is best for you.
With regard to retirement in Southeast Asia, I have to be honest, I don't see a jurisdiction in this region that is more favourable to retirees, foreign retirees, than Thailand. I don't see anybody else that has a Visa that is as straightforward and quite honestly as affordable as the standard O Retirement Visa here in Thailand. The 800,000 Baht in a bank account or 65,000 Baht per month in money coming in and again this is not money that you are handing off to the state for its benefit, this is just your money. Now I know that there are folks that are upset about tax and what I would say to the retiree community is you are really doing yourselves a disservice by sort of spinning your wheels constantly on this thing. It is going to evolve. I've done a video in the past regarding the OECD - Organization of Economic Co-operation and Development - where we talked about how Thailand is looking to join them. Again it's not a foregone conclusion, I am rather skeptical that ultimately Thailand will end up a member of the OECD but that said they are kind of going through the motions at the moment. Part of that is this sort of "harmonization" regarding Taxation and I get that there is consternation to be had by retirees, I really do, I am sympathetic to it. We assist a number of retirees and we are happy to do it, and we also advise regarding Tax matters as well. Then let me just get into this.
The reason I thought of making this video was I was reading recent article in the Pattaya Mail, that is pattayamail.com, the article is titled: Pattaya expats seek income tax clarification from the Prime Minister. Well my first initial response when I read just the headline was why are you talking to the Prime Minister or even trying to talk to the Prime Minister? It is Finance Minister and the Revenue Department that are going to be dealing with this, so any sort of petition for clarification would probably be better directed at them. Now that being said, as I'll get into here in the further analysis, you may not actually want that clarification. Let me get into it here. I was extremely sympathetic to this whole article until we got to this last paragraph and I have to tell you, it set my teeth on edge a little bit. I'm going to try to remain objective here but it did, it candidly and I'm saying that so that my biases are revealed that people can analyze this video within the rubric of their own situation and make decisions accordingly. That said, quoting directly: "The group observed that the lack of definitive information was leading some expats to consider moving abroad whilst others were simply burying their head in the sand ostrich-style and hoping the horror will pass them by. "The confusion is really bad for the future of the traditional retirement market in Thailand. The confusion is obviously a paradise for tax lawyers and accountants," one told Pattaya Mail, "but an absolute nightmare for us." Yeah I've gotten a lot of flak for lack of a better term in real life, in the comments and things, from people in emails telling me that I am somehow trying to exploit this situation. Look, at the end of the day I have been a Tax Attorney for years; I've been an Attorney for years. This is the type of thing we do, and fundamentally first of all this notion that you are going to get a 'one size fits all' definitive answer regarding tax is kind of a naive notion. You are not going to get a Government, any Government to come out and say: "okay you are only going to pay taxes in this scenario, everybody else is okay." That's not how it's ever going to work and as I have said in many, many videos this is all going to be circumstantially dependent. I understand the frustration that comes from that when I say that especially from the retirees who have been here for years and years and haven't had to deal with any kind of situation where they might need some professional advice regarding their tax situation, because quite honestly most retirees are not going to have any problem with tax here but they may have to do some basic planning to make certain that they're not going to have to deal with any tax in Thailand and that does require the assistance of professionals who have a tax specialization if you will, credential, however you want to view it, but a background in tax. Let me also be clear - if I am not already alienating enough of the audience of this channel by trying to be candid with the retirees - the other thing you have got to keep in mind is foreigners aren't in any kind of position to provide any kind of services regarding tax advisory; as we discussed such matters to fall within the restricted occupations of Thailand. So yeah, you're probably going to have to at the end of the day seek the assistance of somebody who is Thai who has again experience dealing with Tax matters to gain some insight and guidance into how best to retire in Thailand in a, I'm not even going to call it a tax efficient manner - that's kind of one of these buzz terms from for the OECD Community - but retire legally without having to worry about tax issues, and there is a way to do that. We have done that for a lot of folks over the course of the past roughly eight or nine months that this issue has come to the forefront.
Now regarding some clarification matters, let me be clear. I've been in Thailand for 16 years, going on 17. I have paid taxes here since literally the time that I got here. Truth be told, I have never been in Thailand in anything other than a Business Visa, so from the time I have had a Work Permit here I've been paying in. Now again, Thailand wants to encourage retirees but at the same time it would be nice if the retiree community would understand that Thailand is paying for the infrastructural improvements and the infrastructure that many foreigners come to rely upon and enjoy using while living in this "Paradise". It's nice having running water on the beaches, it's nice having roads, it's nice having airports, it's nice having an efficient Police Force. Those things cost money; the money for those things comes from taxes. And let me be very clear, I am not a huge advocate of tax okay? I get it all. I have a strong tradition in my family, in my philosophy of "hey you don't come around trying to tax me for no reason," but I'm not somebody that believes in no tax whatsoever; these sort of so-called libertarian anarchists or ANCAPs or whatever you want to call these folks, I agree with them on many of their philosophical foundations, but I am also a pragmatist and at the end of the day, again, new roads cost money; law enforcement costs money; the infrastructure necessary for things like hospitals here in Thailand that provide low cost, low cost medical care, some of that is subsidized by state revenues and state revenues come from taxes. I like it in Thailand that you actually get to see where your money is going. The creation of the new high speed rail system, the creation of this Eastern Economic Corridor System, the port system in Thailand, the road system: all of this which are in top notch levels by the way, I don't think anybody that comes here and drives up and down the Thai Highway between for example Bangkok and Pattaya would say "oh wow, this is an underdeveloped or developing nation!" No, the highway, in many ways it's in better shape than many of the highways that I drive when I go back to the States, okay. So when you're looking at this, a good point of clarification to look at is "hey you're a retiree, you're coming to Thailand, you're enjoying the benefits of their infrastructure but you haven't paid anything in." Now there is a way to mitigate your exposure to Taxation and effectively keep yourself from "paying in". Again many of the retirees that we work with don't have any kind of tax liability here in Thailand. At the end of the day, they may have an assessability but do they actually have to pay anything? Do they have to pay in anything? No, if they planned it right, especially for the new folks, if they planned it correctly they probably don't have to pay anything yet. And yeah it is going to cost a little bit of money - not a lot, but a fair amount of money for fair services to gain the insight and planning guidance necessary to mitigate your tax exposure to the point where you effectively have none as you always did. But yeah, there is a little bit of a professional service fee associated with that. I am not just talking about me, there are going to be other, primarily the Thai Tax Advisory Community if you will are going to be the primary beneficiaries of all of this at the end of the day, okay. But at the end of the day, nebulousness and opacity are your friends when you are talking about taxes. You want clarification, I don't think it's going to be the kind of clarification that you would want if they do decide to go ahead and clarify how taxes could possibly be assessed against retirees here in the Kingdom of Thailand.